Late work policy help

Discussion in 'Middle School / Junior High' started by RSA1984, Jul 24, 2018.

  1. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    1,154

    Nov 24, 2018

    Reading "Culturally Responsive Teaching & The Brain" right now...curious to see how it ties into some of the recent posts here. Culture - racial and otherwise - does affect how one perceives / goes about things.
     
  2. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,617
    Likes Received:
    972

    Nov 24, 2018

    You may believe it, but that does not make it true. This exactly reminds me of the time when I had to stick up for a colleague of mine because he said hello to a student in the hallway and did not greet a nearby student. Lo and behold, the non-greeted student was offended (big deal) and said the teacher was being racist. :rolleyes:

    Discrimination nowadays seems to be synonymous with a practice that one does not like.

    For instance, in New York they got rid of their most recent basic skills test because a certain number of African-American and Hispanic teacher’s couldn’t pass it and therefore it must be discriminatory. Really? I’m sure the test-makers sat around a table when they designed the thing and said, “Let’s make sure that Black and brown people can’t pass this thing. Yeah!” Does that sound like something we should consider to you?

    I’m sorry, but I’m not going to consider what I see as nonsense, unless there was a basis in fact in it. Then, and only then, would I consider it. I recognize that you have your opinion and you are absolutely entitled to it, but it is just that, an opinion. I don’t mean any disrespect by that either. Truly.

    Racism and discrimination are two overused words in today’s society. If you don’t like something, the common spread is to label it racist or discriminatory and then start a campaign to get rid of it. And this is coming from someone who is VERY multicultural (pretty much every race) who’s fed up with it because I’m sure the privilege “argument” is coming up shortly.
     
  3. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,617
    Likes Received:
    972

    Nov 24, 2018

    You know, I grew up poor and didn’t have much, I didn’t always get gifts for my birthday or the holidays, my family never took a vacation, my parents worked multiple jobs just to make ends meet, I moved around a lot as we were a military family and we didn’t live in the best neighborhoods — a few times we were homeless — and I’ve lost multiple family members in quick succession and was even robbed by gang members at gun point when I was 13. And here’s the shocker: I did ALL of my homework and turned it in on time. How I could have done that, according to you?
     
  4. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    1,154

    Nov 24, 2018

    Can people get too offended or over-react? For sure. Just look at politics and how often someone jumps to name-calling Democrats or name-calling Republicans under one overall guise.

    There have been examples of tests not being equitable in assessing student (at whatever age that is) knowledge -- numerous of them, in fact, over the years. That particular one may not have (I could only find opinion pieces, no example questions), but it has happened, so there will likely be some concern about it. Whether it should've been tossed out is a whole different question; I'm not qualified to determine that.

    I actually think it comes back more to becoming more culturally responsive in the classroom to begin with. There are certainly many achievement gaps, and that particular test seems to have showed an example of one far down the line. To me, education is all about meeting students where they're at, both in an academic sense and a holistic cultural sense, and helping them grow. It's part of why I don't have an exact "behavior system" or put tons of specific requirements - because it varies for each kid and their background.

    Yes, people mention "discrimination" a bunch, but much like sexual assault - just because some people over-mention it / aren't actually correct, doesn't mean it's an issue that needs to be addressed. There are still equity gaps that we need to address, and if we can come from perspectives of understanding who the students are, understanding their home life, and then building from there, holding high expectations but recognizing how different elements their culture (again, meaning racial, financial, gender, etc...) affects their perceptions and values of what's happening.
     
    a2z and MrsC like this.
  5. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    1,154

    Nov 24, 2018

    Good for you.

    In my career so far, I've seen kids with situations (not exactly like yours, because we all carry unique cultural backgrounds) where they are extremely successful, and I've seen kids who have struggled mightily. I've had students who have had parents or extended family go to the hospital or die, and some have continued just like normal, and some have needed more flexibility.

    I think you and Always_learning are on two ends of the spectrum; I'd argue that somewhere in the middle is more culturally responsive and thus a better approach.
     
    a2z likes this.
  6. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,617
    Likes Received:
    972

    Nov 24, 2018

    I agree there are knowledge gaps and achievement gaps. There is no question about that. Every test applicant was asked the same set of questions under the same conditions. It doesn’t get more equitable than that.

    Equitable means equal in every way, by definition. It would automatically be unequal if different versions of varying difficulty were given to different students based on their race alone. THAT would be discriminatory and racist because you would be singling our certain people-groups and giving them preferential treatment based on their skin color. Do you see the difference?
     
  7. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Comrade

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2017
    Messages:
    430
    Likes Received:
    272

    Nov 24, 2018

    Mathmagic,

    I'm curious what a part of my approach is "at one end of the spectrum" and (I think you are implying) therefore not culturally responsive?

    My opinion is that late marks are a discriminatory practice. And here I am talking about structural discrimination. You may agree or disagree with that perspective. But my approach - that we don't take off work for late assignments - is a Department of Education mandate so I don't think its an extreme approach. I will say having done it both ways (late marks and no late marks) I hope we never go back to assigning late marks.

    To expand on the rationale for the policy a bit, our Department of Ed says that are grades need to reflect the learning students have demonstrated towards the standards. It doesn't matter how (test, project, conversation, observation, etc) and it doesn't matter when. Therefore, things like handing things in on time are graded by letter on another part of the report card (not part of the grade for each course).

    The reason I see late marks as a systemic form of discrimination is because late marks disproportionately disadvantage certain groups. Of course there will be some people with every advantage who will do poorly and some people who are very disadvantaged who will do well BUT if we want students to have a more equitable change of doing well in the system, we need not to double disadvantage students who already are disadvantaged with late marks. Where I live a big challenge is that positions of power in education are disproportionately assigned to people with many advantages. If we want our system to reflect our students we have to, in my view, think differently about how we structure the system to either reinforce current practice or build equity (because sometimes we probably can't do both).
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
  8. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,617
    Likes Received:
    972

    Nov 24, 2018

    Somewhere in the middle sounds reasonable, but the same tests and quizzes should still be administered to all students and not just some.
     
  9. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    1,154

    Nov 24, 2018

    It's less that fact - and more the fact that often times, questions / performance are (unintentionally, usually) culturally biased.

    Er, no, it doesn't. Below is a great way of visualizing it. I'd suggest doing some reading on equity.

    [​IMG]
    (I couldn't find it in the moment, but there's a third panel in some versions of this picture, such that the fence is removed so that all can enjoy it without the need to do all the different boxes - the goal in the end)
    That doesn't mean that different people receive different test questions; I never said nor implied that whatsoever. What it does mean is that questions are written in such a way that they are not unintentionally biased against certain subgroups of people.

    Here's an example:
    Which word is closest to “cup” — “wall,” “saucer,” “table” or “window”? Some might say saucer, but others might say table, because saucers aren't used within their culture. Random as heck example, but it's meant purely for illustrative purposes.

    My point was more-so that you're saying that it should always be allowed, and fmp is saying that it shouldn't be allowed. Perhaps not 100% ends of spectrum in each of those two things...but I think there's a middle ground. I'm strict about many deadlines, but flexible in many other moments. In some cases, if I taught high school, I'd accept no late work, but there'd be many cases in which I might.

    I never said, nor implied, otherwise.
     
  10. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Comrade

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2017
    Messages:
    430
    Likes Received:
    272

    Nov 24, 2018

    Thanks for the clarification mathmagic. I teach high school and we are not allowed to take off late marks period (see my expanded explanation above) and a lot of staff had a hard, hard time with it back in the 90s when it started but honestly now that it's the 'norm' it really is something I hope we never give up.
     
    mathmagic likes this.
  11. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,617
    Likes Received:
    972

    Nov 25, 2018

    Fair enough, though I would disagree that questions are culturally biased. I was not alive during the French Revolution, but I know of it. And I’ve never personally used a telescope, only a light microscope, but I know what its function is and I could quickly deduce how to operate one if it were put in front of me. Have you ever personally used a defibrillator in your “culture”? Yet, I’d reckon you what it is.

    Additionally, knowing obscure vocabulary would trip up most students. For example, I could describe some of my students as quixotic and most of them if not all would probably scratch their heads. But if I said they were being foolishly impractical then my students would most likely know what I meant as those words are more commonly articulated in everyday vernacular.
     
  12. Teacher234

    Teacher234 Cohort

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    Messages:
    570
    Likes Received:
    143

    Nov 27, 2018

    When I taught middle school and high school, I have had multiple late work policies. On my last year of teaching middle school, I came up with this.......
    -25% grade deduction per day late. 3 days=automatic zero
    Another one I used was......
    -Late work will be accepted up to one week from the due date. Students can earn a maximum of 65%. (If turned in the next day, I did give the students a maximum of 80%.)
     

Share This Page

test