Classroom Management HELP

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Ms.Holyoke, Aug 29, 2018.

  1. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Groupie

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    Oct 26, 2018

    No idea!! The kid is sneaky. It makes sense not to remove the detention though but I wouldn't give a detention just for looking at another student. It was a tricky situation because some kids finished their test early but they still had to be silent as they worked on an alternate assessment. I told him today that his detention was for arguing with me and wasting his time/his classmates' time in class.
     
  2. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Groupie

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    Oct 26, 2018

    Apparently this child told his parents that he is staying after school for extra help, not detention. The Dad apologized and said he would talk to him and I’ll be filling out a behavior log for him to be signed by mom or dad every night.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  3. LouiseB

    LouiseB Cohort

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    Oct 27, 2018

    You will make progress with this student!
     
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  4. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Groupie

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    Oct 27, 2018

    I am not sure what to do with the student who gets mad when I redirect him or another kid. The English teacher said it could be a cultural thing where he doesn’t listen to women? He did get 3 lunch detentions from admin but I assume I should continue documenting?
     
  5. Loomistrout

    Loomistrout Devotee

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    Oct 27, 2018

    By "redirect" you probably mean a "verbal" interaction - yes? Verbal reprimands are always risky because they are public. When you go public with discipline you can never be sure how the student will respond. When I was in school and, like many students, when the teacher put my name on the board with verbal reprimand first I would escalate my behavior. My goal was no longer to behave. It was to get back at the "mean" teacher for embarrassing me in front of classmates. Sooner I could get sent to the office the better. From that day forward I had a grudge against the teacher.

    A spin-off of "working the crowd" is you can camouflage discipline. If you are constantly moving, checking students' work, answering questions, helping etc. you can bend down and privately prompt the student back to work. Done correctly, no one in the room will know whether you are helping the student with math a problem or doing discipline. This is what is meant when effective teachers are described as friendly, warm and "very protective of students". When you call out a student in class odds go up you will be dealing with a larger problem you helped create.
     
  6. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Groupie

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    Oct 28, 2018

    ^
    I’m aware that the ideal is private redirections but the ideal doesn’t always work in the classroom.Firstly, the setup of my room is not ideal and sometimes I need to redirect a kid across the room. If I’m teaching, I’m not going to stop class to privately redirect a kid unless it is a good time. The instance that I’m speaking about, however, was a private and quiet redirection that this student heard and didn’t like. And like I said, I rarely answer questions/provide individual help in this class because the behavior doesn’t allow it.
     
  7. Loomistrout

    Loomistrout Devotee

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    Oct 28, 2018

    There will always be times like direct instruction when proximity is not an option. Discipline from afar may be necessary. Difference is for some teachers nagging and threatening across the room is an every day, every hour event. Instead of visiting they live there.
     
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  8. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Groupie

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    Oct 29, 2018

    ^
    Good point! I wish my doc cam was more central to the room!

    One of my kids was absent today, and class actually went better. The talking is still there and I need to find a way to get it under control without detentions! Right now, I am only giving detentions for things like defiance (blatantly not following directions, etc. OR talking if it is always happening.) The English teacher moved the kids back into groups and had a really difficult day with them. Interestingly, it is my first period class that is starting to act up and misbehave. I made a behavior chart with rewards (school $$) for one kid to send home to his parents and that helped him today but I need to crack down on behavior for my first period class.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
  9. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Groupie

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    Nov 5, 2018

    Kids in my challenging class were talking AGAIN today. The whole 6th grade did a lesson on habits of work expectations and the kids were making posters. I really did not want to do this lesson with this group but I was told to. I still had markers thrown across the room (student was written up and admin gave him a lunch detention) and way too much talking. The English teacher is having the same issues, especially when he moved kids back into groups. My math coach came in today when the behavior was bad so she saw what class is really like for them. The main issue is that they will not stop talking! I feel like I have done everything (called parents, given detentions) and nothing has helped!
     
  10. rpan

    rpan Cohort

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    Nov 6, 2018

    Challenging classes can some time feel like one step forward two steps back. They have good days and bad days like any human. As long as there are more good days than bad then it’s success. As your relationships with them improve and classroom management improves, the number of good days will increase.
    I have a challenging class and some days I walk in and it’s like I don’t even know who the heck they are. Those days are rough. But then majority of the days they listen pretty well for the most part and are respectful. And some days, they are like angels. My class is pin drop quiet the way I like it. It’s just the way it is. I don’t see the bad days as failure, just part and parcel of them being kids going through hormonal changes which they don’t understand. (I teach 13-14-15 year olds). At the beginning, it was mostly bad days, ok days some days, and good days never happened. But that changed slowly as the year progressed to the point where it is now. They aren’t perfect but they have made such progress.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  11. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Groupie

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    Nov 6, 2018

    ^
    At this point for this class, almost every day is a bad day. Today, I had an issue with a kid throwing paper airplanes and lots of talking again. I have to remind them to be quiet during the Do Now 5 times. I wrote this kid up and he will be on "clean up duty" in the classroom for a week (maybe 2 weeks) and he will no longer have the privilege of keeping his binder at his desk until/if I earn his trust back. I had another student who continued to call out, told another girl to shut the **** up, and refused to throw her gum away. Finally, I had another student who walked out of class (w/o permission) and continued to talk. This student continues to insist that he doesn't know why he gets detentions in class. I am not longer stressed about this class & I am making it through but WOW the behaviors are bad & the kids are not learning. Test average was 10 points lower for this class!
     
  12. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Groupie

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    Nov 8, 2018

    I'm sure this is normal for a first year teacher, but I am starting to despise my job and dislike my students. I dread going into work every day and I don't even like teaching my "good" classes because the kids are annoying! I'm not sure if maybe the grade level isn't for me. I hate how I can never do anything fun with them because of pacing and class size. Some of the kids in my "high" class are just obnoxious...

    I have decided that I am done giving detentions for talking because it does nothing to improve behavior + it's too much for me to keep track of. I think I'm just going to try to continue to make it through each day with them. Today wasn't bad but I still have kids throwing stuff when I am writing on the doc cam. Maybe I just need to abandon using the doc cam but how am I never supposed to turn my back to the class? I still have to turn around to use the SmartBoard or take attendance on my computer. I'm really tired of it.

    My vice principal told me that the talking is normal and I should just keep teaching if it isn't too loud. She also told me to call admin for kids throwing things but that means that I need to be able to watch them. They obviously wouldn't throw things while I am watching them.
     
  13. teacherintexas

    teacherintexas Maven

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    Nov 8, 2018

    One year I didn’t do the writing. I wrote out step by step what I wanted a kid to write and taught while looking at my copy of the notes and prompting the kid to write what I wanted.

    It was necessary
     
  14. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Groupie

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    Nov 8, 2018

    Was this because of throwing things? I really can't see any of my students having the independence to write what they would need to on the board.
     
  15. CharRMS

    CharRMS Companion

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    Nov 8, 2018

    Is there away to turn your doc camera to where you can use it but you are facing the kids? Could you implement PowerPoint or GoogleDocs and have things already in there, and then you could buy a presenters remote to move through the slides so you could be anywhere in the room? Have you tired a different seating arrangement? or teaching angle? For example, in my room I have my kids in table groups (probably wouldn't work well for you from what you're telling), and my favorite spot to lecture/give notes is perched on my stool in the back of the room with my presenters remote. I'm just up high enough that I see most of the kids at all times, and the kids are sideways so they can see the screen and me. Plus, when I need to be on the move, I can take the remote with me and teach from anywhere in the room. I don't know if you access to tablet of some sort that you could use, but that is also an option.

    On the talking issue, describe what you mean by talking? Each teacher has his/her own definition. It almost seems from your posts that you are looking for a completely silent classroom at all times unless you give the okay to turn and talk. This may not be the case, but it is what I'm interpreting. I may be wrong. It will be easier to give advice once you describe exactly what you are looking for and meaning by no talking.
     
  16. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Groupie

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    Nov 8, 2018

    I can't move my doc cam unfortunately but I might email the tech guy to check. I personally haven't tried powerpoints but I use guided notes and the kids fill in what I write. I could try some PowerPoints but I also think writing is easier for math. I am also not very good at making PowerPoints! I have tried different seating arrangements but my room is cramped and the paired rows is the best that I have found. I wish I had one of those things that I could write on from anywhere and it would project to the board. Tomorrow, I am going to try using my SmartBoard with all of my classes and see how it goes. I think it will be better since I don't think that the kids throw things when I go over the Do Now on the SmartBoard.

    I guess I am looking for a silent classroom unless I ask them to turn and talk or work with a partner. Do you think that is unreasonable for a 6th grade classroom? My vice principal was saying that it seems like I have really high expectations of myself and that it is sometimes ok to keep teaching even if there is a little bit of talking. This goes against all the advice that I have heard but I know I might have to do it.
     
  17. teacherintexas

    teacherintexas Maven

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    Nov 8, 2018

    The kid who wrote on my doc cam had no independence. That kid was just a scribe.

    I had three violent students in that class. I was walking around during teaching to prevent assault.
     
  18. Loomistrout

    Loomistrout Devotee

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    Nov 8, 2018

    Please ask your vice principal to teach your class for a week and see if he/she still recommends it's okay to keep teaching while students are socializing. The main reason classes spin out of control (talking) is because for students "no" means something else. When two students are talking it doesn't matter if it's not a big disruption. It doesn't matter if it doesn't bother students around the talkers (whispering). If you fail to do anything about it you declare open season on yourself. The whole class just witnessed two students talking when they weren't supposed to and the teacher ignored it. Don't be shocked if other students join in. Why not? It's free. You might as well announce to the class, "Class, remember all that talk about high expectations, following rules and creating a learning environment where everyone can work without being disrupted the first day of school? Well, as you know, talk is cheap. What you just witnessed is reality. As you can see I find some problems, well ... um ... not worth my time. So, if feel like talking go ahead. The worst thing that will happen to you is I will keep teaching." - FJ Tools For Teaching
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  19. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    Nov 9, 2018

    I expect my students to be silent when I (or someone else) is talking to the group (lessons, announcements, class discussions) and when they are working on an assessment. Other than that, my classroom is almost never completely quiet. I do put a stop to the social conversations, but welcome them to have conversations about what they are working on.
     
  20. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Groupie

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    Nov 9, 2018

    Yep, I have the same expectation as well and I usually don’t say something is independent work unless the behavior is terrible. Today, my class was much better and I think that not using the doc cam helped. There was still some talking but there was no throwing things.

    My math coach observed me when it was bad and she again made me feel bad about it. She kept saying how I had to stop talking every two minutes because other kids were talking, etc. and there was just no practical advice. She told me that I should still be able to use the doc cam and that my students should still behave when I’m not watching them. Like obviously I know that but I don’t know how to make it happen!! She also commented AGAIN on how I don’t have groups!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018

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